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Echo Knight - Errata and Clarifications

Errata

taken from: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/class-forums/fighter/64918-an-echo-knight-faq-frequently-asked-questions


THE F.A.Q.

 GENERAL QUESTIONS

  1. Q: Is an Echo considered a creature?
    A: No, an Echo is considered a magical object and not a creature.  It is just a translucent image that occupies a space.  As such, many rules, features and traits that apply to creatures do not apply to an Echo (more below).

ACTIONS

  1. Q: Can an Echo take other actions beside attacking?  For example, can an Echo pick up an object or open a door?
    A: No, Echo's are not creatures and their description does not specific that they can take any actions. 

  2. Q: Can an Echo sneak or hide when moving?  Can an Echo perform or use any other skills?
    A: No, by RAW they are consider objects and no rules grant them the ability to use skills.  They cannot make any actions period, so they can't sneak or hide while moving. The DM can overrule this, though, if you'd like a scout with the level 7 ability. (thanks @LeviRocks)

ATTACKS

  1. Q: Can your Echo attack with a different weapon than the Knight?
    A: No, the Echo never attacks, the Knight simply attacks from the Echo’s position.  
    The text under Manifest Echo states, "When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo’s space.”  Some describe the Echo as simply a portal for the Knight's own attacks.  And as such, an Echo never really has a different weapon or attack capability from the Knight.  

  2. Q: If the Knight’s hands are not free or is otherwise unable to attack, can the Echo still attack?
    A: No, the Knight must first take the attack action, and only then can attacks originate from the Echo’s location.  
    Thus if the Knight can’t attack, an Echo would never appear to attack either.  

  3. Q: If a Knight would have disadvantage on an attack, would the attack from the Echo also have disadvantage?
    A: Yes, since the Echo is not really attacking.  It is the Knight that is attacking, the attack only appears to come from the Echo’s position.

  4. Q: Can an Echo be used to perform a grapple or shove attack?
    A: Maybe, there is still some debate over if and how grappling and shoving might work.  Per the PHB, grapple and shove are "special melee attacks" included in the Attack action.  Manifest Echo states, "When you take the Attack action on your turn, any attack you make with that action can originate from your space or the echo’s space."  Unfortunately, the rules for when a creature tries to break free of a grapple, how it is maintained, and how movement while would work while grappled with the echo are not clear. (thanks @LeviRocks)

  5. Q: Can you use an Echo to gain or grant flanking to the Knight or another character?
    A: No, your Echo is not considered a creature or an ally, which are required by the flanking rules.  
    For the proposed of flanking, the Echo is probably intended to be treated similar to the Spiritual Weapon, Flaming Spheres, or Bigby’s Hand spells.  The Echo is not a real creature and thus doesn’t provide a flanking bonus, even if there is a threat of attack from it.
  6. Q: If using the optional flanking rules, can an Echo gain a flanking bonus to attack if another ally (other than the Knight) is directly opposite of the target?
    A: No, because the echo isn't a creature or ally, as required by the rules.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  7. Q: Assuming the Knight has some levels as a Paladin, can the Paladin’s Divine Smith be applied to an attack though an Echo?
    A: Yes, because the attack is still from the Knight, and the only thing that changes is from where the attack originates.

  8. Q: Can you use a melee attack spell or cantrip through an Echo?
    A: No, because casting spells still falls under the 'cast a spell’ action, and thus does not qualify as taking the ‘attack action'.  
    For spells like Booming Blade, being able to make a melee attack is just a component of the spell.  The only exception to this would be using Warcaster on an opportunity attack with an Echo (see Opportunity Attacks).

  9. Q: Can a rogue gain the advantage of their sneak attack if the Echo is next to the target?
    A: No, since the Echo is not considered an ally or a creature, as required by the rules for sneak attack.

  10. Q: Assuming the Knight has some levels as a Rogue, can an Echo be used to make a sneak attack if there is another ally next to the target?
    A: Yes, the echo can sneak attack if another enemy of the target is within 5 feet of the target. It doesn't specify that you have to be standing there.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  11. Q: Can a Knight use Unleash Incarnation multiple times in a single turn?
    A: Yes, but only using Action Surge or Haste.  
    Action Surge allows a fighter to take a second Action action.  Unleash Incarnation states, “...Whenever you take the Attack action, you can make one additional melee attack from the echo’s position.” 
    The Haste spell specifically provides an additional "Attack... action", and thus does allow Unleash Incarnation to be used again.  Though there is some debate on how the " (one weapon attack only)" clause impacts this. 
    The fighter's Extra Attack feature gives an extra attack whenever an Attack action is taken, but does not grant an extra Attack action.  And thus does NOT allow an additional opportunity to use Unleash Incarnation.  
    (thanks @Graysire and @LeviRocks)

  12. Q: Can you use an Echo Avatar to make an attack up to 1000’ away?
    A: No.  By RAI, attacks cannot be made through an Echo Avatar.
    Jeremy Crawford tweeted, “The intent is that you can't do anything with the Echo Knight's echo while using Echo Avatar, other than scout with it. The text stating that intent is mysteriously missing from the book. We'll fix it in a future printing! Sorry about the confusion."
  13. Q: Can a Knight attack a creature through his Echo if only the Echo has line-of-sight to that creature?  Is there any penalty if the Knight can’t see the target?
    A: No by RAW, because the Echo has no "senses" without you using the level 7 ability. Thus an Echo cannot help a Knight see her target.  (thanks @LeviRocks)
     
  14. Q: If a creature has obscurement or cover from the Knight, but the Echo has a clear line-of-sight, is there any penalty to the attack if it originates from the Echo?
    A: No, because the attack would originate from a position that wouldn't have the cover.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

RANGED ATTACKS

  1. Q: Can you make a ranged attack (for example with a bow) from the Echo’s space?  
    A: Yes, using Manifest Echo, a Knight can make ranged attacks from the Echo's space.  
    An attack action includes any attack using a ranged weapon as well.  However it is worth noting that Unleash Incarnation ability explicitly only allows "melee attack from the Echo’s position", and thus cannot be used with ranged attacks.  (thanks @OptimusGrimus)

  2. Q: Can you make a ranged spell attack (such as with a cantrip) from an Echo’s space? 
    A: No, because casting spells still falls under the 'cast a spell’ action, and thus does not qualify as taking the ‘attack action'.

  3. Q: When you fire a ranged attack from an echo, does it still consumer ammo?
    A: Yes, it consumes ammo.  Even if the attacks originates from the echo’s space, it is still the Knight making the attack.

OPPORTUNITY ATTACKS

  1. Q: When taking an opportunity attack through an Echo, can the Echo utilize the Sentinel feat?
    A: Yes, but only the first part of the Sentinel feat’s features applies.  
    The second and third parts of the feat only apply to the Knight herself because of the wording “your reach”, and the wording of the Manifest Echo feature as it relates to the timing.
    The Manifest Echo feature says:  "When a creature that you can see within 5 feet of your echo moves at least 5 feet away from it, you can use your reaction to make an opportunity attack against that creature as if you were in the echo’s space." 
    Sentinel's three parts are:
  • Whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, its speed drops to 0 for the rest of the turn. This stops any movement they may have been taking.
  • Creatures within your reach provoke opportunity attacks even if they took the Disengage action.
  • When a creature within your reach makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature.
Q: Can a reach weapon or other reach traits (such as a bug bear) be used in conjunction with the Echo Knight’s opportunity attack feature?
A: No, because of the specific wording for the distances.  
Manifest Echo says, "When a creature that you can see within 5 feet of your echo moves at least 5 feet away from it, you can…"

(minor clarification - 4/9/21) Q: Can you use the Warcaster feat through an Echo?
A: Yes, but only the first feature of Warcaster applies.  
Warcaster says "When a hostile creature's movement provokes an opportunity attack from you, you can use your reaction to cast a spell at the creature, rather than making an opportunity attack. ..." So you if you use Manifest Echo to make an opportunity attack through an Echo, you can use Warcaster to cast a spell in place of that Opportunity Attack, and this all works because, mechanically, you make the Opportunity Attack "as if you were in the Echo’s space".

MOVEMENT

  1. Q: Can an Echo and Knight swap places between attacks?  
    A: Yes, the rules for bonus actions state that they can happen anytime during your turn.  
    Bonus Actions says, “… You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified, and anything that deprives you of your ability to take actions also prevents you from taking a bonus action."

  2. (minor clarification - 4/9/21) Q: Can an Echo ‘fly’ or move in any direction?
    A:  Yes.  There is nothing in the rules or the description of the Echo's movement that would prevent it from moving in the z axis (up/down).
    Per the Echo Knight rules: "...you can mentally command the echo to move up to 30 feet in any direction...".  This is very similar to how spells like Bigby's Hand or Spiritual Weapon work, except the require a bonus action. 
    Reference: https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/02/is-bigbys-hand-actually-flying-e-g-is-its-movement-speed-flying-speed/
     
  3. Q: If an echo knight has a flight speed, does that allow the echo to fly as well, or would the echo fall at the end of every turn?
    A: No. Echos do not have a speed, and the Knight moves them.
    Per Jeremy Crawford, "The echo created by an Echo Knight doesn't have a speed, and the knight can move the echo in any direction, including into the air. The echo can hang out wherever you move it."
  4. Q: Is an Echo affected by difficult terrain?
    A: No, Echoes don't have a speed, so difficult terrain doesn't affect them.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  5. Q: Can an Echo move more than 30’ from the Knight without it disappearing?
    A:  Yes.  However if the Echo moves more than 30’ from the Knight at any time, it will disappear at the end of Knight's round.  The exception to this rule is the use of the Echo Avatar ability.  When using this feature, you can move an Echo more than 30’ away.

  6. Q: Can the Knight swap places with the Echo if it is more than 30’ from the PC?
    A:  Yes, a Knight can swap at any time during its turn assuming it has 15’ of movement left and a bonus action, before the Echo disappears.  

  7. Q: Can an Echo be summoned in a square beyond the sight of the main character (for example, on the other side of a wall or door)?
    A: No, you must be able to see the space you wish to manifest it in.  
    Per the Manifest Echo ability text, "You can use a bonus action to magically manifest a echo of yourself in an unoccupied space you can see within 15 feet of you"

  8. (Updated - 4/9/21) Q: Can an Echo move through other objects (such as a wall) or other creatures (allies or enemies)?
    A: Maybe.  There is an ongoing debate on if Echo's are tangible/solid or if they are merely images.
    On one hand, an Echo is an object, which means that it is physical, and can't pass through creatures or other objects. By the Manifest Echo rules, it occupies a space, which means it is solid, even if it can float. Alternatively, it description states that an "...echo is a magical, translucent, gray image..." that floats.

  9. Q: Does an Echo occupy its space, and can an enemy pass through an Echo’s space?
    A: Yes, an Echo occupies a square.  And thus it prevents enemies from passing through its space.

  10. (Updated - 4/9/21) Q: Can allies pass through an Echo’s space?
    A: Maybe.  There is an ongoing debate on if Echo's are tangible/solid or if they are merely images.  
    An Echo occupies a space, and since it is an object, isn't considered an ally or creature. This would be like trying to run through a wall.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  11. Q: Does an Echo provoke an opportunity attack when it moves?
    A: No, because opportunity attacks must target a creature, and an Echo is not considered a creature.

  12. Q: Can an Echo Avatar travel in any direction?
    A: Yes, an Echo Avatar can even travel 1000’ vertically.  
    There is nothing in the rules that limit the direction the Echo Avatar can travel.

  13. Q: Can you teleport to an Echo that is 1000’ away using the Echo Avatar feature?
    A: No by RAI, a Knight cannot teleport while using an Echo Avatar.  
    Jeremy Crawford tweeted, “The intent is that you can't do anything with the Echo Knight's echo while using Echo Avatar, other than scout with it. The text stating that intent is mysteriously missing from the book. We'll fix it in a future printing! Sorry about the confusion."
  14. Q: Can a Knight manifest an Echo and swap places with it in the same turn.
    A: No, since both actions require a bonus action.  
    Unless of course the Knight can somehow gains more than one bonus action per round.

  15. Q: How far can an Echo Knight move in a single round with the aid of an Echo and assuming a movement speed of 30'?
    A: In one round, if a Knight already has an Echo manifested that is 30’ away, the Echo can move another 30’ further away on that turn.  Then the Knight can swap places with it (costing 15’ of movement and a bonus action).  The Knight can then move an additional 15’ – for a total of 75’ before using the Knight’s action or Action surge.  The Echo will still disappear at the end of the round because it has moved more than 30’ away from the Knight.  
    It is worth noting than an Echo Knight cannot manifest an Echo and swap places with it in the same turn. 

  16. Q: Can the Knight use the teleport to not trigger an Attack of Opportunity? (by @GodlessCleric)
    A: Yes, teleporting would not provoke an attack of opportunity. This is true for any source of teleportation, from Misty Step to Eladrin's step.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  17. (Updated - 4/9/21) Q: Can the Echo be used as a platform as it takes up space like an Immovable Rod?  Can it be used to carry items?  Can it be used to pull items? (by @GodlessCleric)
    A: Unclear.  It is debatable if an Echo is solid/tangible or just an "image".  RAW states than an Echo "occupies its space", and thus one might be allowed to stand on the theoretically physical space the Echo occupies, or to tie something around the Echo.  But most likely, the RAI are that Echos cannot be used to transport other people or things.  In short it would be grossly overpowered by effectively providing free flight or transport to anyone who holds onto or stands on the Echo as it moves arounds without much limitation.  Since it isn't defined if anything can hold onto the Echo, it is up to the DM, but be forewarned that this is easily exploitable and could cause power imbalances. (thanks @LeviRocks)

  18. Q: Can it move underwater? Does it displace water?
    A: Yes, an Echo can move through water or other liquids at its normal speed of 30'.
    An Echo doesn't have a movement or swimming speed, and does not need to swim.  Since it is an object, it does displace water, presumably the same volume as the Knight would.  If it takes damage while moving through the liquid, such as lava, it would be destroyed.

  19. Q: When an Echo moves, is it silent?
    A: Unclear, though presumably yes, since it is effectively floating and described as "magical, translucent, gray image of you."

DEFENSE

  1. Q: Can an Echo be flanked when it is attacked?
    A: No, an Echo can't be flanked, because it isn't an enemy, ally, or creature.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  2. Q: Are Echos immune to any damage types?
    A: Yes, objects are immune to poison and psychic damage, and an Echo is considered a magical object.
    Pg 246-7 in the DMG under Objects and Damage Types states, "Objects are immune to poison and psychic damage."

  3. Q: What else is an Echo immune to?
    A: An Echo is "...immunity to all conditions." The conditions are listed here:
    • Blinded
    • Charmed
    • Deafened
    • Fatigued
    • Frightened
    • Grappled
    • Incapacitated
    • Invisible
    • Paralyzed
    • Petrified
    • Poisoned
    • Prone
    • Restrained
    • Stunned
    • Unconscious
    • Exhaustion
  4. Q: If an Echo is immune to being blinded, how is it affected by obscurement?  And can it see in darkness?  
    A: Not applicable. Because Echos are immune to blindness, they technically aren't affected by darkness, but they also don't have any perceptions.
    They don't have functioning eyes and ears (unless you're using the level 7 ability), which means that darkness doesn't affect them, but this doesn't give any advantage to them either. Attacks made through an Echo are from the perspective and perception of the Knight.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  5. Q: If an Echo is immune to being invisible, does the invisibility spell not work on it?
    A: The invisibility spell does not work on Echos, because Echos are not creatures, and a creature must be the target.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  6. Q: Can an Echo be targeted by all spells?
    A:  Since the Echo is not considered a creature, it cannot be targeted by spells that can only target creatures.  Spells can interact with objects, if and only if, the spell says it does.  (Thanks @LeviRocks) For a list of spells and how they work with or against Echos, see the Spell Interactions section below.

  7. Q: Can an Echo be grappled?
    A: No, an Echo can't be grappled by RAW.
    You cannot grapple objects. Grappling specifies that it must target a creature. Since Echos are objects, you cannot technically grapple one.  It is unclear is this is RAI.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  8. Q: Can an Echo wear additional armor or carry a shield? (by @GodlessCleric)
    A: No, Echos cannot wield shields or carry any additional gear since the text does not explicitly state that it can. Additionally the text explicitly states how the AC of the Echo is calculated, regardless of armor or dexterity.
    If an Echo is considered just an "image" (per the text) that takes up some physical space, it would not be able to take advantage of any additional real gear.  It is most likely that the RAI is for Echos to not be able to carry or wear additional gear.  It should also be considered that allowing an Echo to use additional magical gear may be exploitable and imbalance the game, though the Echo would still be severely limited by the actions it would take.

  9. Q: Can the Knight ready a bonus action to teleport with his/her reaction to make the Echo the target instead of the Knight? (by @GodlessCleric)
    A: No.  By the rules for readying an action, no one can ready a bonus action. 
    Thus you would not be able to ready an action to swap places or manifest an Echo.

  10. Q: Can an Echo be given temporary hit points or have it's max hp increased? 
    A: No, objects cannot gain temporary hit points. Their hit point maximum can't increase, as there are no current ways to do so for an object.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  11. Q: Can an Echo use class features of the Knight, for instance could it use Rogueish evasion to save against an AOE spell? 
    A: No, because Echo's themselves cannot take Reactions, and the Knight wouldn't be the target of the attack that triggers those reactions, the Echo is. The only reaction the Echo can "take" is allowing the Knight to make an opportunity attack from its position.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  12. Q: When an Echo is hit with an attack, can it use Armor of Hexes (Hexblade class feature) for a full save?  What about using an Abjurer's ward to keep it alive?
    A: No, these only apply to Knight being hit, or an "ally". Since an Echo is not the Knight, and isn't an "ally" (it's an object), you can't use these abilities.

  13. Q: Can defensive spells with a range of "self" (such as Armor of Agathys) be applied to an Echo?
    A: No, assuming a Knight could cast these spells, they would only apply to the Knight.  Nothing in the rules say the effects also would apply to the Echo.

  14. Q: Can an Echo be shoved or knocked prone?
    A: No to both by RAW, because prone is a condition that Echos are immune to, and Shove attacks only apply to creatures.
    Shoving states, "Using the Attack action, you can make a special melee Attack to shove a creature, either to knock it prone or push it away from you." Since the echo isn't a creature, it can't be targeted with a shove.

  15. Q: By extension, can an Echo be involuntarily moved, pushed, or pulled?  What affects should do this?
    A: Yes, an Echo can be manipulated by any spell or ability that allows an object to be targeted, such as Telekenisis.  But it is unclear how much an Echo weighs, though it could be inferred that it has the same weight as the Knight.  (thanks @LeviRocks) 

SPELL INTERACTIONS

Q: What spells can target or affect an Echo?
A:  Since the Echo is not considered a creature, it cannot be targeted by spells that can only target creatures.  Spells can interact with objects, if and only if, the spell says it does.  Here is a list of spells and how they may interact with Echos. (Thanks @LeviRocks). Orange indicates it does not affect an Echo.  Green indicates that it can affect an Echo.
  • Animate Objects – does interact with "non-magical objects", but since an echo is considered a "magical object",  you can't cast Animate Objects on it.
  • Bigby's Hand – could work against the Echo, but only Clenched Fist. None of the other abilities for Bigby's Hand would work, because they all specify creature.
  • Enlarge/Reduce – can target objects, so it could affect an Echo.  Additionally, when a Echo is created, it is considered the same size as the Knight.  So if a Knight was enlarged, it would also produce a large Echo.  (thanks @Sumisusenpai)
  • Fireball – interacts with objects, if and only if they're flammable. There have been no comments on whether or not the Echo is flammable, so I am assuming it isn't, as it is an "image."  Images or holograms (even tangible ones from movies) don't tend to be flammable.
  • Firebolt – can target creatures or objects, so a firebolt could obviously destroy an echo, if it hits.
  • Levitate – would work on an Echo since if affects "loose objects".  It can be inferred that the weight of the Echo is the same as the Knight.
  • Sacred Flame – only works on creatures and would not apply to an Echo.
  • (new) Shatter – only works on non-magical objects.  And Echo is explicitly described as "magical".
  • Shield of Faith – only works on creatures and would not apply to an Echo.
  • Spirit Guardians – only works on creatures and would not apply to an Echo.
  • Telekinesis – would work on an Echo since if affects objects.  It can be inferred that the weight of the Echo is the same as the Knight.
  • Toll of the Dead – only works on creatures and would not apply to an Echo.
  • True Polymorph – does not work on "magical" objects.

MISC QUESTIONS

  1. Q: If the Knight is holding a torch while summoning an Echo, does the Echo have a torch that gives off light as the Echo is a copy of the knight? (by @GodlessCleric)
    A: No, a torch carried by an Echo would not give off light.  The Echo is just a "translucent, gray image of" the Knight, not a physical copy.  Thus no items are actually replicated, and no light would be given off.  The implication is that the Echo appears identical to the Knight, but you can work with your DM to determine the actual appearance.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  2. Q: Can an Echo or Echo Avatar be used to set off traps?
    A: Maybe.
    An Echo floats and has no mass, even though it takes up a physical space.  However it has substance, which is why it can be damaged.  While it may not be affected by gravity, it may be able to trigger pressure plates and tripwires, but if and only if you specify that the Echo is going to press it down against the ground or moving it across a space that you think it would be in. Additionally magical traps that can only be triggered by creatures would be unaffected since an Echo is considered an object.
     
  3. Q: If the Knight is under the effects of the Invisibility spell, what happens when an Echo is manifested?  What happens if the Echo is used to make an attack?
    A:  Manifesting an Echo would not end an Invisibility spell on a Knight, but attacking with it would.
    It is the Knight making the attacks, but only from the position from the Echo's position.  It is worth noting that Echos cannot be turned invisible because of their immunity to the condition and the fact that they are not creatures.  (thanks @LeviRocks)

  4. Q: How long does an Echo last for?
    A: An Echo lasts until it is destroyed, until you dismiss it as a bonus action, until you manifest another echo, or until you’re incapacitated (or go to sleep).

  5. Q: Does an Echo need to breath?
    A: No, Echos don't need to breathe. They're objects, and thus non-living things, like rocks. This also makes them immune to spells or conditions that would affect a breathing creature. And it also allows them to travel underwater.

  6. Q: What handbooks or guides are available for Echo Knights?
    A: References:
    (Forum Post) In-Depth Echo Knight by Fishapod
    (YouTube)The Echo Knight: Best Fighter Subclass? By Treatmonk
    (Forum Post) Request for Echo Knight House Rules & Homebrew?