1. Notes

D&D Size Shifter Thoughts

Archive

Size Shifters use SIZE POINTS.

A Size Shifter's base size is Medium


After a long or short rest, size shifters gain Size Points equal to their level.

A size shifter can have a MAX SIZE points equal to Level + (Z)

Z being proficiency bonus, perhaps? Or more, depending on how often and powerful want the abilities to be used.

No idea what Z would be, Proficiency Bonus seems fine.


MATH

Invest Size Mechanic: Need some clarification on this one!

for 1 size point,  up to threshold
 effect INCREMENT++
 change size by RATE
wait 1 round
It's a FOR EACH loop in psuedocode, a control structure used in C#/C++/Java
It means almost 
When you are maintaining an 'Invest Size' effect, like ENLARGE ALLY, ALTER SELF or SIZE CURSE, these things happen
-It occurs over a duration of once per round. It lasts a number of rounds up to [INVEST SIZE THRESHOLD K] 
Each Round:
- You lose (pay) 1 size point.
- The power of the effect increments by one. In the case of Enlarge Ally, +1 damage
- The target changes size according to RATE. In the case of QUADRATIC RATE and ENLARGE ALLY, your ally enlarges by one size category per round, until they hit your SOFT LIMIT. Then they continue to grow by X% per round until they hit your HARD LIMIT


Burst Size Mechanic:

Spend x size points to reach soft limit


SIZE LIMITS: 

Determined by level

-5..0..5 What is this?

This mathematically expresses the range of -Colossal <- Medium -> Colossal+.

Medium is 0, Large is 1, Huge is 2, Gargantuan is 3, Colossal is 4, Colossal+ is 5

Small is -1, Tiny is -2, Diminuative -3, Fine -4, Microscopic??? -5. Instead of using the words, we can express it as S1, -S5, S5 etc.

Large = +1, Small = -1 Is this saying size limits are altered by how large/small a creature already is?

No, it's enumerating the list I just shared in a terser manner.

Soft Limit: +X/-X Size Cat, Less than What is X here, character level? So you can go up or down two size categories at level 2?

X is just a variable, I don't know what the variable is.

Hard Limit: X+1 Size Cat, X+2 Size Cat, X+3 Size Cat...?

GROWTH RATES

Quadratic:

Targets shift by size categories once per round until reaching the Soft Limit, after which they only change size by percentage, up to Hard Limit. 

Thus for a level X shifter, a mouse will grow from Tiny to Huge at one category per round, whereas a Level 2 Tyrant would grow to huge, then grow 10% per round until they reach Gargantuan size.

This is different for tiny/large creatures? Does the shifter count as large for this calculation due to their size potential?

No, the rate is the same for all creatures. The shifter's SOFT LIMIT determine where growth slows down. 
EXAMPLE: If you want to spend 5 size points on Enlarge Ally, Ingrid, starting from Tiny, growing to Huge would shift one size category per turn.

Meanwhile for those same points, Korry would grow one size category to Huge(15 ft), then only grow up to an additional 50% (22.5ft) after spending 5 size points. They would both still finally get +5 damage.

The shifter might have a HARD LIMIT of GARGANTUAN or 100%, so Korry could not grow beyond GARGANTUAN even if you had access to 20 or more size points. Hard Limits could be expressed in percentages so that the cap is based on the creature's main size instead of a size category. So you could always make a creature bigger, but only within a certain percent. OR it could be limited to a category, so maybe you couldn't make Gargantuan creatures any bigger.   

INCREMENT: The amount a creature changes size from round to round is referred to as an INCREMENT. 

Instant:

The size change occurs in the time of one bonus action.


QUADRATIC RATE ABILITIES

All these listed ability cause targets to change size at a quadratic rate.


Alter Self:

A shifter can enter [STATE], where they shrink or grow at will, up to their SOFT LIMIT. Their size changes according to Quadratic Rate. In combat this costs 1 point per round.

Enlarge Ally:

A shifter can spend a 1 size point per round to enlarge an ally, granting them +1 melee and ranged damage per INCREMENT. Targets expand at a rate of one INCREMENT per round.

Maintaining this effect costs 1 size point per round. So 1 size point to activate the ability giving +1 melee and ranged damage for that round, then another one on the next round to keep it going resulting in a +2 next round, etc? Does this reset to 0 if it stops being maintained, or  linger at the last used bonus?

The effect ends immediately if it stops being maintained. The bonus goes back to 0. 

Size Curse

The shifter spends 1 size point to activate a Size Curse

As an attack action, the shifter can attempt to size curse a creature within 30 feet. The target must make a Con or Wis saving throw against [PROFICIENCY] DC. DC should probably be 8+Primary Attribute Modifier+Proficiency Bonus. i.e. a level 2 rogue could use their dexterity mod of +3 and proficiency bonus of +2 to have a DC of 13.

Sure, whatever the standard DC formula would be for primary class features or spells, eg whatever a Hold Person DC would be.

A target can make a saving throw at the end of their turn on subsequent rounds to end the effect. When the effect ends, the target returns to normal size within one round. A target that saves against the effect cannot be targeted again for 24 hours.

Bloat Enemy

A shifter can spend a size point to expand a creature at a QUADRATIC RATE to make them easier to hit. This imposes a -1 AC per Increment. This effect costs 1 size point per round to maintain.

Possible errata:

Targets growing or shrinking are effected by the feather fall effect. IE no cow-cannons.

Tyrants gain a disadvantage to Expanding, and gain +1 melee and ranged damage per Increment Assuming this means Tyrants get disadvantage vs expanding, still get the AC penalties but also gain the damage bonuses? This also needs a range (probably 30 or 60ft?) and needs to specify if it's exclusively single target.

Bloat Enemy and Drain Size are not individual abilities, they are aspects (Sub Headings) of Size Curse. Essentially they are Size Curse: Bloat Enemy, Size Curse: Drain Size. Therefore the range is 30 feet, and the shifter can only attempt it once per action. The effect is no different than a wizard who has prepared multiple DOMINATE CREATURE or HOLD PERSON spells. It's limited severely by actions, Saves Per Turn and at lower levels likely requires a jump start by Draining an ally for additional size points..

Drain Size

The target creature shrinks at a quadratic rate

For each INCREMENT the target shrinks, they gain a -1 to all melee and ranged damage rolls, and the shifter gains 1 size point, up to their maximum. So to do this on an unwilling target you spend a size point to gain a size point? (then presumably potentially more if you spend multiple points to make it last several rounds?) This also needs a range (probably 30 or 60ft?) and needs to specify if it's exclusively single target.

Yes. You need to spend a size point to make the attempt. Therefore at earlier levels you need to make decisions about maintaining your own size or keeping some in reserve for Burst Abilities. As with Hold Person, the number of drains you maintain depends on your actions. And note it's limited by size categories drained. So once you hit your soft limit you get no more size. A Tiny target essentially provides no size points early on. If you drain a medium size target, they might provide at most extra 1 size point. Once the target reaches your soft limit (Tiny), you will no longer gain size points even if you maintain the effect..

A size shifters can drain size from a willing target for no cost. Willing targets don't make saving throws.

Possible errata:

Targets growing or shrinking are effected by the feather fall effect. IE no cow-cannons.

Tyrants automatically make saves against shrinking, or gain an advantage to saves against shrinking. I'd say advantage if you want to implement something like this, though this reduces the ability to gain size  points when enemies become tyrants later on as size points are only gained from shrinking a target and not growing them.

We can ignore it then

Last Hit

If you kill an enemy, (PERFORM A CHECK) and (YOU CAN GAIN SOME SIZE POINTS), (LIMITED PER SOMETHING)

I'd maybe look into basing this off of hexblades curse, maybe attacking/defeating a size-cursed target gains size points or heals/gives temp hp to some degree? Should ditch the check at any case and have maybe the amount of size points gained from the feature start low but increase a tiny bit with level, that way you're not bogging the game down with extra unnecessary checks. I'd also try to avoid too many 'get the last hit' mechanics as if other players end up using this it can foster bad blood and "Leave it for me to finish off" situations which slow down the game and stop other players from being free to finish off enemies.

Seems to be more trouble than it's worth. Skip it. Instead we should make an array of items that maybe increases size points, has storing.etc.

BURST ABILITIES

BURST LIMIT: Determined by chart

Giant Smite: What sort of action would this be? Bonus action trigger?

The same as Paladin Smite?

You or an ally instantly to grow to HARD LIMIT, Spend X points, deal X damage. Return to SOFT LIMIT.

Tyrants remain at HARD LIMIT. Does this include Shifters? They do have control over their size after all! :P

Size Shifters aren't Tyrants, the same way Toys are not Minions. We can explicitly add Shifters if that is important to you..

Shrink Dodge

You or an ally instantly to shrink to HARD LIMIT, Spend X points, reduce X damage. Return to SOFT LIMIT I'd change 'reduce X damage' to 'increase your AC for the round/against the triggering attack by the amount of points spent'. Shrinking makes more sense for avoiding attacks rather than soaking damage. This is on the presumption this is a reaction to do when targeted by an attack.

Sure

Explosive Growth

Target you or an ally below MEDIUM size. Instantly grow them to HARD LIMIT. Require a Reflex Save and Deal Area damage equal to Xd6/Yd6/Zd6 Reflex save should be Dexterity Saving Throw vs your Size Shifter DC. Damage wise, do you want this to be based on the amount of size points spent or a flat/scaling amount? As for Area size, maybe a 10ft radius, possibly scaling depending on the hard limit reached?

The area size = final size of the creature. The damage can be scaled according to size points spent, limited by Burst Limit

To be used Instead of "Cow cannon" Physics. This is the principal of damage if a shrunken cow is thrown into the air and falls on you after it grows back to normal size.

Fast Ball

Shrink an ally to SOFT LIMIT, throw them DISTANCE MODIFIED BY SOFT LIMIT, deal EXPLOSIVE GROWTH damage

OTHER

Size Stealth

While at TINY SOFT LIMIT, gain advantage to Stealth Checks

Size Intimidation

While at BIG SOFT LIMIT, gain advantage to Intimidate Checks




Size Shifter Table Proposal

Size Shifters are rare beings with the ability to latently manipulate their own and other creature's size.

A Size Shifter's base size is Medium. On ASIs they gain an ASI and a Feat like Tyrants.

Size Shifter DC: Some Size Shifter abilities will require targets to making saving throws. Your DC for these saving throws is 8 + Your Primary Attribute Modifier for your class + your proficiency bonus.

Level
Feature
1
Size Points, Soft Limit (1), Alter Self, Enlarge Ally
2

3
Size Curse
4

5
Giant Smite, Soft Limit (2)
6

7
Shrink Dodge
8

9
Explosive Growth
10

11
Fast Ball, Soft Limit (3)

12


13

14

15

16

17
Soft Limit (4)
18

19

20

Size Points:

Size Points are a resource Size Shifters use to use their shifting abilities. When you complete a short or long rest you gain a number of Size Points equal to your level. You can have a maximum number of Size Points equal to your Level + Your Proficiency Bonus at once.

Size Limit (SOFT and HARD):

Your Size Limit is how big or small you can make yourself or another creature. There are two types of size limits - SOFT and HARD.

Your SOFT LIMIT follows the number in the table above and increases as you level up. This number represents the amount of size categories you can grow or shrink a creature by with your Size Shifter abilities.

Your HARD LIMIT is your Soft Limit + your proficiency bonus. Certain Size Shifter abilities will allow you to grow or shrink a creature past your Soft Limit for a time, up to an amount of size categories equal to your HARD LIMIT.

This will likely need to be altered, though it might be fine as the rate of Hard Limit growth is typically much slower and size shifters need to continue to spend the points to maintain it. It has the potential for some absurdly huge/tiny characters, but a lot of resources need to be invested in it and it happens slowly, so it might be ok!

NOTE: The rate of growth/shrinking with your abilities is as follows: The target changes by 1 size category per round (at the start of the size shifter's turn) up to the SOFT LIMIT. After that they grow by a rate of 10% of their height per round, up to the HARD LIMIT. These rates of growth are known as INCREMENTS. Start of size shifter's turn may need to be changed to start of the affected creature's turn, might be easier to track? Might also need some additional wording to account for the instant size category size change when using one of the shifter abilities.  Some abilities are marked as 'INSTANT' - these size changes happen instantaneously and do not follow this rate of size changing unless specified otherwise.


Alter Self:

At the start of their turn a Shifter can choose to grow or shrink themselves at will up to their SOFT LIMIT. Out of combat this is free, but in combat this costs 1 size point to adjust your size by a size category. Whilst you are shrunken to your Soft Limit you gain advantage on Stealth and Acrobatics checks. Whilst you are grown to your Soft Limit you gain advantage on Intimidation and Athletics checks. This does mean at later levels you only get these bonuses whilst you're absolutely gargantuan or microscopically small, perhaps wording needs to be adjusted so it simply requires you to hit at least Large/Tiny to get these bonuses? (Said Tiny not Small as small creatures are already a thing, makes more sense for Tiny to be where the bonuses start!)

Enlarge Ally:

A shifter can spend 1 Size Point as a bonus action to enlarge a willing creature within 30ft of them. The target grows by one size category and gains +1 to the damage of their melee and ranged attacks for each size category this ability grows them by. To maintain this effect a shifter must use a bonus action on subsequent rounds to spend another Size Point, growing the target further up to the Size Shifter's SOFT LIMIT. If the Size Shifter does not maintain this effect it ends at the end of their turn and the target shrinks back to their original size instantly.

Size Curse:

Starting at 3rd level, as an action the shifter can spend 1 Size Point activate a Size Curse on a creature within 30ft of them. The target must make a Constitution Saving Throw against your Size Shifter DC or be effected by one of the following effects:

Bloat Enemy: The target grows by an INCREMENT per round up to your SOFT LIMIT to make them easier to hit. The target suffers a -1 AC penalty for each INCREMENT they are grown. A Size Shifter can spend 1 Size Point on their next turn as a free action to maintain the effect.

Drain Size: The target shrinks by an INCREMENT per round up to your SOFT LIMIT. For each INCREMENT the target shrinks they suffer a -1 penalty to all melee and ranged damage rolls, and the Size Shifter gains a Size Point. A Size Shifter can target a willing target with this ability and drain their size without expending Size Points, in which case no saving throws are rolled and the size change lasts as long as the Size Shifter wishes, or until the next short rest.

A target of these curses can repeat the save at the end of their turn, ending the effect and returning to their normal size on a success.

Maybe worth changing this from an action to 'as part of an melee or ranged attack or a spell. If the attack targets more than one creature, choose one target to be affected by the curse.' This means people aren't burning action economy on this? Bonus actions being eaten up are already important for a lot of classes like rogue and monk.

Giant Smite

When you or an ally within 30ft of you makes a melee or ranged weapon attack, you can spend a number of size points up to your proficiency bonus to grow the target instantly to your HARD LIMIT. The attack deals an additional 1d8 damage for every Size Point spent. Then, non-tyrants return to your SOFT LIMIT whilst tyrants remain at your HARD LIMIT.
This has a few issues currently. It's by far the best use for size points, and with the way HARD LIMIT is currently worded this can result in some very large characters very quickly, Colossal accessible at level 1 and beyond that at Level 5.  Interested in hearing proposed reworks for this. Also, how long would a character stay at SOFT/HARD LIMIT for after using this? Maybe worth adding a blanket 'Your Size Shifter effects fade when you complete a short rest' ruling to allow creatures to naturally return to their normal size after a time, and to ensure Tyrants don't just *always* stay at HARD LIMIT.

I also want to couple this with a Size Talent which makes it so non-tyrants can get access to some Tyrant bonuses like squeeze bonuses not affecting them, being treated as a tyrant for purposes of abilities, and the Tyrant's base +2 damage. Something like 'Large at Heart'. Interested in hearing proposed reworks for this

Shrink Dodge

As a reaction when you or an ally within 30ft of you is targeted by an attack you can spend a number of Size Points up to your proficiency bonus to shrink the target down to your HARD LIMIT and increase the target's AC by the amount of points spent until the start of their next turn, at which point they instantly return to their previous size.

Explosive Growth

You can spend a number of Size Points up to your proficiency bonus as an action to target yourself or an ally within 30ft of you who is size Medium or smaller. The target instantly grows to your HARD LIMIT, and every creature whose space is taken up by the target's new size must make a Dexterity Saving Throw vs your Size Shifter DC or take 1d6 bludgeoning damage for each Size Point spent on this ability and be shoved to an adjacent space within 5ft of the target.

Should the target reduce back to their prior size after this effect goes off, or linger at HARD LIMIT? If linger, for how long? This also currently hits allies, which I imagine is fine but just thought I'd point that out for balancing purposes.

Fast Ball


When using Explosive Growth you can choose to target an ally within 5ft of you. You shrink them to your SOFT Limit and throw them to a space within 60ft, at which point they grow and deal damage as per Explosive Growth.

Changed this slightly to be a flat 60ft range which is simpler than figuring out a scaling range, and at the level you currently get this 60ft is completely fine and serves as a nice ranged option. Would growing someone to HARD LIMIT with something like this convey the benefits of Enlarge Ally, i.e. the extra damage?

OTHER STUFF??? CAPSTONE? MASS ENLARGE ALLY (MULTIPLE TARGETS)? MASS SIZE CURSE? (Shrinking an entire group of people down to feed your own size is fun!)

September 16th, 2022 September 16th, 2022